Let's Talk About Dating

Because this post concerns dating and such, I'm putting it below the cut so those related to me can make a conscious decision whether or not to read on. If you choose to read on, you will find out things about me you will wish you could un-know immediately. Don't blame me. I warned you. And for heaven's sake don't ever try to talk to me about it. I don't want to know what you think about my online dating profile.

Okay? Onward.

Andrea posted today about the conundrum of whether or not to say you have children on an online dating profile. She was responding to a post at SingleMomSeeking, who was responding to a gag-inducing article from one of the idiots who brought us The Rules.

Theories abound: yes you should because it's part of who you are (but don't say too much because then you'll be a Mommy! Mommies aren't sexy!), others say no you should never because either you'll scare all the men away or you'll attract sexual predators.

I'll tell you what I do. I have an online profile at okcupid, although I've never actually used for real-life dating purposes (I've never had to). I mentioned my kids as often as they came up (but no pictures, ever.) You can't care for children for all but 40 hours every week and not have them make a huge impact on who you are. Here is the (edited) text:

My self-summary

I like cities, my kids, reading, and coffee. Don't like cars, the President, or closed-minded people. I enjoy good beer and I bemoan digital jukeboxes. My cat thinks I'm crazy. So does my mom.

What I'm doing with my life

I write a ton, self-publish some, really publish a tiny bit. Most of my time with my kids is spent keeping them occupied while I try to flesh out an idea before it disappears. As you can imagine, there are little pieces of paper with cryptic notes on them all over the house. Right next to me there's one that says "silliness-no gravity-life as the moon".

   

I'm really good at

Losing hours to the net. Making my friends laugh. Fellatio. Writing with my feet (not just ambidextrous, polydextrous!)

The first thing(s) people usually notice about me

People always notice my kids first.

The six things I could never do without

My kids, my friends, writing as an emotional outlet, my computer, laughter, Jon Stewart.

      

I spend a lot of time thinking about

How to make the most of my life. What I would plant in a garden if I had one. How to bring my lifestyle into harmony with my anti-materialist consumerism-wary values. How to pass said values to my kids who grow up in a culture that demands consumerism and conformity from them. The right preposition to fix the meter in the third verse of that poem that's stuck in my head.

The most private thing I'm willing to admit here

I get far too much action in real life to have a profile on a dating site, but it's a holdover from the immediate post-divorce days when the idea of dating was so frightening that I could only do it from behind a computer screen. I've thought of deleting it, but I like taking the tests.

You should message me if

You have something fascinating to say.

But if you can't punctuate, don't even bother.

-----------------------------

As you can see, 1. I'm kind of an asshole (and I took the most obnoxious parts out!) and 2. my kids come up pretty damn often, and to hide them would be completely dishonest.

But then, I am privileged enough by the way I look that the world abounds in interesting men, and there is nothing to gain for me by hiding my maternal status. If some guy is turned off by it, there's always another intriguing possibility around the corner. And after five minutes with me, any man could see that I am not looking for a Daddy. (I wonder sometimes how my outlook would be different if I were less attractive.)

I've never experienced diminished stock because I have kids. Maybe it's because I'm clearly not looking for something lasting, maybe because I want to keep my kids and my dating life separate (but, full disclosure, when I was actually put in that situation about six months ago when I started dating the man I'm currently seeing, the separation of progeny and dating life didn't last very long).

But then, I have no expectations of Partnership. When I date, I don't want a Relationship (although now I have one, and have for seven lovely months). I just want to go out, see a show, have a good time, maybe get some (safe) nookie. I like being alone, I don't want to get married, and I expect that men will cycle in and out of my life in the same way as my friends do. I also like being in love but just in a romantic way, not in a hey let's get a joint bank account kind of way.

All the feedback I've gotten from the dudes of the world can be summed up in this comment:

Jim E. "Are you joking? Single Moms are HOT! There is just no two ways about it. I would seriously respond to a single mom before an unexperienced single woman in an online posting. Lets face it, most of the paths to single motherhood are unpleasant. That means that single moms have already faced fears, looked reality square in the face, are working their butts off for the betterment of others and STILL come up smiling and full of hope. In my book, that makes them the queen of women. Single women with stars and hearts over their heads can just go sit down. There is no comparison."

And if they don't feel that way? They are not worth one more second of my time.

Comments

[Andrea]

See, I just don't get this.

I mean, I'm not exactly a toad in a pink dress either--I don't expect that being a mom would reduce my market value, I just think it's irrelevant. Frances won't be with me, so until someone actually meets me it's none of their business. Just like I think my parents and siblings and friends are none of their business--until I meet them.

I'm not hiding Frances--she typically makes an appearance early on in the first date, conversationally speaking--and I don't think I'm being dishonest. I talk about me. Frances isn't me, and neither is my relationship with Frances. It's a big part of my life, but there are a lot of things that are a big part of my life that don't go in the profile. I don't think of it as "hiding" Frances or "being dishonest"--any more than it's hiding or being dishonest not to mention the wicca, the feminism, etc., which are also really big and IMO really positive parts of my life.

And Jim E is creepy. Just saying. I don't want to be fetishized for my status any more than I want to be demonized for it.

[Kateri]

I think my profile would look quite different if I had a job, even one I hated and didn't mention much, because then it wouldn't be all kids all the time.

But the truth is, I have no idea if people don't approach me online because I'm a single mother. I just don't date that way.

When I meet people, and they ask me what I do, I say that I'm a mother (sometimes I also say I'm a writer, but then the next question is "what do you write about?" and, well...). And there it is. What else is there to say?

In fact, calling what I do "dating" is kind of pushing it. I meet people mostly at shows and in bars. If I see someone around often enough, we hook up. If I like that enough, *then* we go out on a date. This method pulls from a much different pool of people than online dating. But, my prerogative when I'm kidless is not to go have awkward conversation with a stranger I met online, even if they look like a really cool stranger that I might hit it off with. I go out, blow off steam, have a good time, and I meet people along the way.

Among the people that "date" the way I do, JimE's attitude (whether or not you think it's creepy) is far more common than "I don't date mommies" (which I think is far creepier). And once the information is out there, it fades into irrelevance, just as it should, because there are a million more interesting things to talk about than my single-mom status.

[suz]

I recognize this profile format. I am on the same site. I have met and dated one great guy from it. Not much action otherwise. I never encountered any issues (pro or con) with being a single mom.
Amused at your fellatio reference.

[Andrea]

See, I lost my appetite for going out to shows and bars a long, long time ago. My prerogative for my kidless time is not to hang out with a bunch of mostly-kids who are mostly there to get drunk or laid. I would much rather go to a coffee shop and have a tea with a stranger. Usually the conversation is not awkward.

And yes, I think the job thing might be a factor.

And that's just it--I don't want either the "single moms are HOT" guys or the "I don't date mommies" guys. So I leave the mommy out. They respond to me. I suppose if I ever met someone who "doesn't date mommies," that could create an awkward situation, but it hasn't come up.

Besides--this is something I keep trying to get at, and apparently it's not working--I don't tihnk that someone who decides not to message a mommy on a site "doesn't date mommies" necessarily. In my experience--of myself, and of other people met this way--it's a convenient way to spare yourself rejection by finagling the pool of acceptable candidates down to the smallest one possible by any means necessary, including inventing reasons not to be interested in someone. Frankly, I think grammar is the same, though I'm guilty of it. It's easy to imagine that someone who can't spell or punctuate is stupid, uneducated, boring, illiterate, or whatever that triggers for you; but they could also be genuinely intelligent and interesting people who are dyslexic or what have you.

But when you're online, a small thing can be inflated to a whole raft of meanings that are not supported by the data. I feel like I understand that perspective adn I have compassion for people who ... what's the phrase I'm looking for here? Are facing the same demons I'm facing with a different face. Nervous about trying again, finding it easier to reject than be rejected, etc.

[Single Mom Seeking]

First, thanks for the plug!

Second, your profile rocks! I was caught off guarding, thinking that you could be describing me. Wow. No punctuation is a big turn off. My mind is always churning, and my kid is always catching me writing down little notes so I can remember.

And get this: That Jim E. sent me the EXACT same note, via my blog. Hmmm. Interesting.

P.S. So, where do you meet men? Just curious!

[Terrance Harris]

Well, now Kateri you have really gone and did it this time! Your good at BJ's (not the wholesale distributer) I've always wanted to know that! Thank you very much for offering such precious information. As you well know I've always been a fan of yous and now I am just flabbergasted! Do you think such a thing is warranted at this particular site? I am not being a prude but wow!

[Terrance Harris]

Well, now Kateri you have really gone and did it this time! Your good at BJ's (not the wholesale distributer) I've always wanted to know that! Thank you very much for offering such precious information. As you well know I've always been a fan of yous and now I am just flabbergasted! Do you think such a thing is warranted at this particular site? I am not being a prude but wow!

[Kateri]

terrence, as i recall, this fellatio reference is very small potatoes compared to the kind of raunchy talk you used to belt out at the coffee shop. i wonder why this is more offensive, that i am a mother who referenced having an actual sex life? is that the unseemly part? maddonna-whore much?

really, dude. i *pay* for this space, and i can be as flabbergasting as i choose. and, you know what else? this is not the first time i've written something about sex, or even about blow jobs, but this is the first time i've gotten the "sit down and stop embarrassing yourself, silly woman" kind of feedback.

hear me? i'm snickering.

thanks for reading, though. and say hi to edward for me.

[Planet Reverse Positioning::::Your infertility was favor, for the gods were granting you more time i]

Planet Reverse Positioning::::Your infertility was favor, for the gods were granting you more time in hope you could get out "before" this obligation forced you to stay.
The Italians bred like rabbits:::That they got "pregnant immediately" illustrated their undesirability.
Your children are the ones with the opportunity now. You must sacrifice to give them the best chance possible.
It's children who go to heaven, not old people.

This is the REAL battle of good and evil:::Me vs. god. Of course I'm trying to help you understand that you are corrupted, fell for temptation and are going the wrong way::::WE are the ones who are evil. (While executing the battle of good and evil the gods do some evil things, like role play their clone host tools to disceive you, forcing thoughts into your head, etc.)
The gods tested us and we have failed, scapegoatting their tools to ensure people never become god-fearing. Learn what I teach and try to uncorrupt yourselves. NOBODY IS GOING TO SAVE YOU!! You have to save yourselves by repairing your relationship with the gods.
Cashier@GSqfamilymemberreincarnated.com

This is how the gods do business:::::They use temptation and deception to compel people to chase something that has already been decided. It's children who go to "beaven". OLd people have to come back. The gods will use their power to contradict this, corrupting people and compelling them to incurr evil::::They used the Italians to ruin life in the 20th century, cost you the Final Prophet and the result will be death as you wait for the Italian Second Coming of Christ to save you.
This is the god's positioning and it IS going to be enforced. Never forget::::The gods have always offered "protection" to those genuinely religious. It is something that was always respected, even in the wicked 20th century.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As people begin to age the gods employ corrupting tactics. They ultimately begin to look down on the children and the wisdom they recently understood:::
They voluntarily turn their back on their opportunity to ascend and instead embrace evil.
It's not old people who go to heaven. Old people must come back because of the mistakes they've made throughout their lives. Children are the ones who have the opportunity to ascend.

Children are discounted by adults in society. The gods corrupt people as they age, use trust-building tactics and soon adults view the children as ignorant, yet to understand the god's system, and subsequently look down on the children. This is one of the most bitter, painful ironies the gods employ, for people consciously turn their back on and lose their opportunity to ascend::::
Religions teach that old people to go to heaven when they die. They don't. Old people are reincarnated. It's the children who go to heaven, those who have a chance at immortality.
The wisdom the gods impart to children, either through their innocence/purity or religious-based educational pursuits are the gods sharing the truth with their most favored people::::It's the children whom the gods teach the right way for it is the children who have a chance. For example, they teach children to have faith, for understanding the god's geographical clues hurts people by illustrating negative things, opening the door for the god's to employ deceptive tactics.
Old people don't go to heaven. Old people must come back because of the mistakes they've made throughout their lives. It's the children who have the opportunity to go to "heaven". They must behave apprioriately, think correctly and be genuinely god-fearing. Their innocence and lack of desensitization ensures they have a real opportunity to achieve this goal.

[Kateri]

what???

i was going to delete that craziness up there but i changed my mind. it's just too weird.

[Stacy]

Wow... you caused the planets to realign? Or planet-wide infertility? Or old people are going to hell? And if so, what, exactly, is the cutoff for 'old'? Because I'm staring down a barrel at 40 and if I'm going to hell anyway, I'm going to start having a LOT more fun.

[Mya]

Some people do pursue women with children for ill reasons but any woman with common sense will get to know who she's dealing with to be certain they are not child predators. Now as far as trying to conceal the fact that you have a child because you're insecure about what a man will think about you, thats a whole other can of worms.