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Thursday, March 30, 2006

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» Marriage and misandry from Good Enough Mum
On reading Kateri's take on this particular marital dispute, my first thought was that the couple in question are probably both making the same mistake as she is. Kateri's approach is to start by deciding which member of the couple [Read More]

Comments

Jaci

You have a wonderful way to put into words ideas that I know so many of us are thinking. I completely agree. I'd be one of your wives...if for the mere fact that I would love to share in some of your parenting knowledge.

Sarah

I guess I hadn't really considered co-sleeping as anti-husband. We slipped into co-sleeping with the first out of laziness. Then it became a pro-parent decision--my husband got more sleep if I didn't ask him to get up and get the baby. (A fair compromise if I had to wake to nurse the baby, he could wake up for the fetching and/or diaper). The king size bed we bought years before children was a sleep saver when we realized how easily we all fit. Now with two, four in the bed is harder. But since sleep is our main purpose at night (shocking, I'm sure), we squeeze in when two kids want us. (We did do an "arm's reach" kind bed extender for baby number two until he could hold his own).

Sorry not to deal with the bigger issues. Wives are good, but I would add, so are husbands. But then again, most of that depends on what kind of person they are, no? A thought-provoking post.

Casey

I guess the question that springs to my mind is how is he going on strike? What, is he going to quit complaining and getting in her way when she's trying to take care of their kids? Oooh, big loss there.

Casey

Oh, and I would be one of your wives, too.

But only if you promise to rub my feet.

Lilian

This discussion and the articles you link to are extremely interesting. My experience with co-sleeping is the very different from this couple's, though.

My husband loves co-sleeping as much or even more than I do. He's the one who falls asleep with the boys in our bed every night (we transfer the oldest to his toddler bed in the middle of the night, but he generally comes back in the before morning) and he simply loves to sleep with our sons in his arms. He's just delighted to spend as much time as he can with the boys whenever he's home from work or when we travel or go out together. I am the one who would like to go out for dinner more often (even though when we get to do it I do miss the kids a lot :)

Co-sleeping and spending all of our time together with the kids are not problemematic for our relationship since we both enjoy these things so much and we know they won't last long... We'll certainly miss these years a lot.

Aria

Co-sleeping for me was survival as well as parenting style. My ex husband never had issues with it and my new fiance actually misses some of the time when Sarah doesn't come into bed with us. It's a bit trickier with my fiance, while Sarah is used to him during the day at night, it's still all about MaMa. As she gets more and more into the Elektra complex, I expect that to change. 4 is such an interesting age with all that.
Anyway, back to the post, men are just as responsible for parenting as women, they need to understand the parenting choices, reasons behind them and support them as well. If that dad felt that he wasn't being taken care of, he should realize that he is an adult and needs to take care of himself. Then realize that his children need him and his wife needs his support and co parenting. Marriage is a partnership, not a job, nor a role or any other bunko.

Margot

I dunno. I'd like to support your view as I like you and your blog, but I think the reality of family life is that we all have needs, adults as well as children. And among those adult needs are things like affection, conversation, and sex!

I guess my observation would be that NEEDS should be taken care of first, then WANTS. By that, I mean what the kids genuinely NEED should come first. But the NEEDS of adults should come before the kids' WANTS, at least some of the time.

I am absolutely pro-woman and pro-kids, and I know that a lot of men are of dubious benefit to their families. But happy parents who clearly enjoy a happy, intimate relationship that is built to last, are a great gift to give a child.

Some mothers I see are just so into their children that there is no room for anyone else. I feel sad when I see mums leaving their partners alone, hardly speaking to them or asking them about their day, to do EXTRA type things like flash cards, etc etc.

Margot

Kirsty

Great post.

I think that a certain amount of compromise is important in any relationship but this guy just seems to just want everything his way. Mind you, there doesn't seem to be much actual communication going on - they both seem to have backed themselves into corners but I think he's taken it to ridiculous extremes by going on strike. That sort of passive/agressive shit is very destructive to relationships. And then to plaster it all over the internet!

Well, I think I'd be throwing his stuff out the door about now...

I think he comes across as very whiny on his website:
http://www.husbandonstrike.com/

Some of his concerns seem legitimate, it's reasonable to have some adult time in the evenings and kids need their sleep. But whining about pacifers for 2 year olds and being jealous of a 2-month infant - that's a bit pathetic if you ask me. And what's stopping him picking up the bedroom in the evening?

Kateri

"happy parents who clearly enjoy a happy, intimate relationship that is built to last, are a great gift to give a child."

well said, Margot.

Happiness in any form is a great gift to a child. My problem is that mothers have to stick with less than happy circumstances because there is no real alternative.

Beanie Baby

What I want to know is--if he wants HIS needs met, what is he doing to ensure that HER needs are met? Does she know that there is no-expectation touch, ever? Or is every hug given by the husband a prelude to more? Does he do everything he can in the house or is she responsible for all of the childcare and housecare? How much nurturing of the kids does he do?

I haven't read his blog, but this is something I get so tired of hearing: "She spends all of her time taking care of hte kids and she never takes care of ME!" WEll, buddy, you're an adult; it's not her job to take care of you. And it's a two-way street, you know; you help her, she'll help you. But otherwise it's just that old service model of wife and motherhood that I thought was dead in 1965 but keeps popping back up again.

Ally

"A happy mother makes happy children. We use this all the time to justify mothers taking time for themselves, for their husbands, for their work, and not having to feel guilty about it. But when a mother wants to sleep with her kids, if being with her kids makes her feel fufilled and happy, for some reason those same justifications don't apply. All of a sudden, her choices are damaging her marriage, threatening her stability, and thereby hurting her kids."

Great post - I especially like this quote. This attitude amazes me, for all his faults, my husband is completely on board with our toddler coming first at this stage in our lives. There has been some co-sleeping-related wrangling, but more of the "I'd rather it were different but you do what you think is neccessary" variety.

I had so many preconcieved notions of motherhood, and I was so surprised at how much it does consume me. I think ideally fatherhood should be consuming as well, maybe not as much and probably in different ways. But I think it is for my husband, and that's why this isn't really an issue for us.

Jana

YES!!

I want to be one of your wives! When you start the mommy commune, send me the address. I'm serious.

Kateri

Consider your feet rubbed, Casey ;)

Jana, at this point the only thing standing in the way of the mommy commune is a lack of funds. There are some moms in real life who are like "I'll do it if you do it" but no one wants to jump ship first. We need money from the sky!!

Lynn

What would you do about shared custody arrangements with fathers if the mommy commune existed? Would it defeat the purpose of not compromising your parenting values if the children's father parented them differently (ie no co-sleeping) when he had them?

Kateri

I think it's good to let kids see that people do different things in different houses. My mom has her own rules for my kids when they're with her, my grandfather has his own ways too (candy, more candy, and more candy). This way she learns that not everyone is the same.

I would have to trust that Josh would do things the way he saw fit at his home (which would probably include scary movies after dark and other things I wouldn't do). My control can't extend to his house. He's a good father, he loves his girls, he doesn't need my control.

Rach

It makes me sad that in so many womens' eyes men are nothing more than sperm donors. You should see how my daughter adores her father. It's a love affair. But, he does put me first, and our daughter will grow up knowing the boundary there... that in order for us to love her to the fullest extent, we need to be in love with each other, respecting each other in all things. Sometimes, in selfish marriages, it seems to me that it would be better for both parents to take a step back and realize that their partner just may have some unmet needs. When BOTH partners do that, it's amazing what happens.

Rach

And romantic love? Really - romantic love will get you through about 6 months of marriage. Then you'd better have something else to back that up. So many people get married thinking that the "feelings" are enough. Love is a verb.

Lisa

I completely, wholeheartedly disagree with you and agree with the poor husband. I think the wife in question needs to also take her husband's needs into account. I think she is being selfish.

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