"get off my train!!!"

I think it's cowardly to henpeck someone over email. I think it's bad manners to continue to badmouth a blogger over email to others who commented on the offending post. And I think it's really annoying to repeatedly misspell my name even though it's perfectly legible on my website. If my name is really that hard for you to master, try the c&p option.

Someone (can't remember who, sorry) once distinguished the difference between a forum and a blog in a very clear way. A forum is a public place: like an ongoing conversation in a park. All viewpoints can be expressed respectfully. Some manner of decorum must be followed if the public place is going to be a welcoming one. No one has a proprietary right.

On the other hand, a blog is someone's front porch. Clearly, the space belongs to somone, and that someone has a right to say whatever they choose. If you don't feel comfortable there, you can go home to your own front porch and invite discussion there. Just as I wouldn't tolerate such rudeness in my home, I don't take such rudeness lightly on my blog.

For clarity's sake, a history of the exchange.

Her first comment, to this post, where she implies that 1. I am a liar, and 2. the only way to manipulate a person is with a gun:

Give me a break.

"people began to emerge from the woodwork who wanted my baby."

Really? people sought you out and asked to adopt your child once you came out as pregnant? BEFORE you looked into placing your child with adoptive parents?

Somehow, I don't think so. You were given the chance to give your child a loving home when you got pregnant with your child. You gave that chance up. Blame who you want, but I didn't read anything about someone holding a gun to your head demanding that you relinquish your child. You initiated the process.

AND lawyers, ect. do not depend on young women feeling inadequate. It's an issue of supply and demand. If there were no demand, there would be no supply for their services.

My response, over email:

If you can't respect my point of view, please don't read my blog.

Her response to my email, after which I decided to let this go:

why? b/c your point of view is the only one with merit?  I don't think so.  There are two sides to every issue.  obviously you have come to regret the decision you made to place your child for adoption.  I don't think it helps though to externalize the blame for your decision.

So, I have learned by now that 1. I have stated that my view of adoption is the only valid view, and 2. I made my decision in a vaccuum with no other influences present, and I should take the blame entirely. In other words, I made my bed, now I should lie in it and SHUT UP.

All this would have been fine, but then she decides to comb through old posts and find something to throw at me (boy, that tactic doesn't sound familiar AT ALL):

Oh and I found this very intelligent response to open discussion about adoption on the internet:

"I'm sorry, but if there's no controversy in an adoption forum, there's no real discussion. Don't flatter yourself, honey, that you're really being informed.

As far as nowhere being safe...newsflash, you're on the internet!"

recognize it?

And then she sent something similar to LisaV and copied to me (I have bolded the misspellings for my own amusement):

Lisa:

I disagree with your comment regarding my comment.  As Kateria put it in her December 25, 2004 post regarding the suggestion that she keep her comments to herself in connection with comments she had made previously in an adoption forum:

"I'm sorry, but if there's no controversy in an adoption forum, there's no real discussion. Don't flatter yourself, honey, that you're really being informed.

As far as nowhere being safe...newsflash, you're on the Internet!"

So, as far as I am concerned, Kateria has opened her blog to comments and discussion regarding her views on adoption. 

Kateria has also asked me not to read her blog if I do not agree with her point of view.  So its okay for her to express a contrary view regarding adoption in certain forums, but not others? Sounds a bit hypocritical to me.  Sounds like "agree with me, or shut the fuck up." 

Newsflash, you're on the Internet!

The funny thing? Two can play that game, sweetcheeks.

But I find the bitter tone and the attitude of entitlement expressed in the Birthmother/Lifemother blogs a bit outrageous and some of the statements libeless. However, since I respect the fact that their blogs are their forums to vent their frustration and aggravations, I will refrain from commenting on their blogs and express my views on my blog, which is my forum.

This post is dated July 16th, 2005. It seems like she understood the concept all along.

Hmmm.

Since most of this was conducted over email, banning her would be useless. Clever, right?

Comments

[Lisa V]

I honestly don't understand her stake in picking on birth mothers. For someone who is not a member of the triad she has a pretty big chip.

[Aimee]

Ugh, Kateri, big hugs from me.

For me, in my own blog, I don't necessarily discourage disagreement, but I can't stand it when people don't even respect my feelings ON MY OWN BLOG. Just because someone writes on the internet gives other people license to be rude?

And it really pisses me off when people don't respect birthmother anger and grief. As if having a gun to our heads would be the only valid reason to give up our babies against our hearts' wishes? I'm sure family pressure, the subtle and not-so-subtle things people say to us when we are, as you said, vulnerable, means nothing?

I've fed this line to myself for years. I wanted to keep my son, my heart agonizes over this loss every day, for nearly 21 years, but I caved under heavy heavy pressure from family. Family who sent me to an OB where my son's future adoptive mother worked as a nurse, who sent me to a therapist who had two adopted children, family who told me I could not live with them if I kept my baby, a mother who yelled at me every day for being pregnant..and so on. So for all these years, I tell myself if I wasn't strong enough to buck all that and go figure out how to be a teenaged single mom, I didn't deserve to keep my son. NO ONE HELD A GUN TO MY HEAD! But I would have been completely alone. Is my experience rare? Hell no.

Um. Yeah, got carried away there.

You know what else? However much you plan and think and agonize over your decision while you're pregnant, nothing prepares you for how you feel when your baby is born. Any parent should be able to relate to that. I'm a parent now, so I DO know. I loved her from the moment I knew I was pregnant, but the minute she was born was amazing, the love I'd felt blossomed into this huge, beautiful thing. What happens to a birthmother when that love blossoms and then some people come and take your baby away? Because you asked them to. Ugh. So hard.

Still with the carried away...

[Karinsamira]

I am sorry you got hurt on your own territory, and it's indeed kind of bad style to criticize someone behind her back. But, omg, I have to admit that I have yelled the very same argument like Enough Already to my own biomom lots of times. And it took me like several years to accept and understand that while I might be one to go through a wall to achieve her goals (12 years of infertility treatments have teached me this lesson quite clearly) I am not to expect the same thing from others, including my own mother.This was one of the hardest things to accept for me, ever.

[Andrea]

*jaw drops to floor*

*Andrea scurries around, trying to find and reattach jaw so she can speak*

There are so many groups in the world to pick on. Why birthmoms?

I do not understand. Why are there so many people who are so invested in policing the lived experiences and the expression thereof of people who have lived lives they know nothing of?

What am I missing? It seems to be such a popular hobby, but I do. not. get. this.

[Dawn]

I just read her response to my comment on her original entry (the one that's "now for something completely different"). Now I have to go comment again. Jeez, what is with people????????????

[kris]

I swore that I would not post on another adoption thread... I swore it. It's not my fight, so I try my hardest to leave it alone. But here I am. Twice in one day. Go figure. And, now everyone can get all pissy, becaus they're going to hate what I have to say. You've been warned.

People are hard on life-mothers because adoptive-mothers are sometimes afraid that they can never measure up, simply because they didn't give birth to the child in question. (I don't believe this to be how things really ARE, only that it's how some people FEEL)

It is my understanding, and I'm sure you'll tell me if [that] I'm wrong, that the reason for all of this bickering is that people hear stories about the poor, trashy, young, promiscuous, drug-addicted mother who "gave up" her child for adoption, to give him/her a better life. And the story of the generous couple who took "another woman's child" into their home and raised him/her as their own. Well, that story just doesn't pan out.

These children (as decided by the demand for them) are often the product of young, white, middle/upper-middle class women who could have provided a more-than-adequate life for their children. There are not enough of THESE children to go around. Here, starts the problem.

The children who really need help are those in foster care. THe kids whose parents weren't coerced into giving them away, the ones who were taken. But noone wants those children. THey want babys who aren't "damaged-goods". So, what do we/they do to get the child that is wanted so desperately? Whatever we can.

We blind ourselves to the pain of the life-mother. We dehumanize her. We down-play her bond and her life-time of loss.

[Kristin]

Yipes. It is frustrating to me that folks don't understand the concept of forum/public space, blog/front porch. Or just choose to ignore it. Though I do feel there is a lot to learn from debate, there is a time and place for that, and a way to do it with respect and politeness (not by being rude and insulting someone on their own front porch). Kateri, I just want you to know that I am a future adoptive parent and feel like I am learning SO MUCH from you on this blog. I want to go into this with my eyes wide open, and you are helping me with that. Thanks.

[Enough Already]

Kateri (did I spell that right?):

If you think it is cowardly to henpeck someone over e-mail, then why did you do it? You were the one who e-mailed me first asking me not to read your blog if I did not respect your view points. You initiated the e-mail correspondence and I simply replied using the same medium.

I also responded to commentators on your blog who addressed me via e-mail b/c I interpreted your e-mail to mean that you did not want any more comments from me on your blog which were contrary to your opinions. I did this out of respect for your feelings, not your views. However, since you have chosen to publish a post in a public forum regarding our exchange, I am responding in kind.

As for the difference between a forum and a blog, I would argue that a blog becomes a type of forum when you open it for comment. That being said, unlike you, I can own my mistakes and admit when I am wrong. I am sorry that my post was rude and disrespectful. I think my view points were valid, but the manner of expression that I used was inappropriate.

To Lisa V: I will not e-mail you a response b/c Kateri thinks that form of communication is cowardly when other people use it, besides her that is. It is true, I do not have a dog in this fight but I do have an interest. This is not unlike Kateri who reads infertility blogs when she herself has never been infertile. And while I understand that birthmothers suffer life long grief and regret over their decision to place their child for adoption, I think the one-sided vilification of adoptive parents and people who facilitate the adoption process is completely unfair, ignores the reality that we live in, and is, quite frankly, unproductive.

To Dawn: What is with people you ask? I’ll tell you. Not all people agree with your point of view and that does not mean they are wrong.

What I find so surprising is the criticism that I am getting from Kateri and you, her followers, for expressing a contrary view point. It is Kateri who has encouraged open, frank discussion of adoption issues. Please refer to Kateri’s post “Why” dated March 29, 2004. In there she states that “if there's no controversy in an adoption forum, there's no real discussion.” She goes on to complain bitterly about the criticism she received by commentators on an adoption board where she posted her opinions which were contrary to the majority of the other posters. She writes “I cited sources, and I was belittled. Nobody cared that my feelings were being hurt and trampled. I think it's ironic that they got so mad that I came in there where I didn't belong and stirred up trouble.”

So I ask you all, is it only the opinions of others who agree with you that have validity and merit? Is there only one side of this issue that is worthy of discussion?

[sster]

Kris, I can't agree that infant adoptions always (or even often) this way. Maybe in the Caucasian 'pool' more often? But in any case, there are pregnant women out there who know ahead of time that their children will be in danger in their own homes and make an adoption plan, perhaps preventing a terrible foster-care situation in the future. As for those who choose infant adoption over foster care adoption, like me, it is most often a matter of knowing what you can handle with your own resources. Some people just can't. I am not for coercion and I am disgusted by the fact that Kateri was basically stalked during her pregnancy. But for birthmothers who really are in desperate circumstances, and can't parent despite the services available to them, infant adoption can be a good choice for them and their children. Please let's not paint things all-or-nothing.

[Karen]

You are known for your open and generous comments. Please help me understand your story, Kateria?

My questions followed by my confused comments:

1) You felt stalked during your pregnancy with Ellie, by adoptive parents? Please explain.

1)During my pregnancy I had people pat my pregnant belly, ask me what I was carrying (perhaps a horse?) and tell me they knew it has to be twins, but never never did I have adoptive parents-2-b follow me around? Perhaps I should have looked over my shoulder,I might have seen them hiding?
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2)How did they(adoptive parents climbing out of the woodwork) know you were a-looking or confused ?

2)I assume you didn't wear a sling saying"I am looking for adoptive parents for my baby?"
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3)Your viewpoint on open adoption being you stay a constant part of Ellie's life, like an aunt or cousin - and I quote your words about being a cousin etc.

3) So Ellie is told you are her beloved cousin "SlingLady" and then at 3 or 5 or 7 or 9 she realizes cousin Sling is her birthmother - and with that in mind her mother is supposed to say what about her birthmother, describe cousin Sling? or make up a new identity so as to not blow cousin's sling incognito approach?
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4) What does open adoption really mean to you?

4) To mean it means you get to pick the parents who will parent and become mommy and daddy to the child you carry and are not able to raise. It does not mean they take care of said child while praising you every day for their own misfortune at not being able to carry their own children. It does not mean that you will in every situation remain in said child's life, it does mean the child is able to learn about you when the time and place is right. It also does not guarantee that said child will even want to know you, or love you or make you that beat all part of your life.

I understand regrets, I understand posting on your blog about your viewpoint. I don't understand having a public blog with open comments if you don't want to receive them.

On the other hand maybe don't both answering my questions, just hang a sign that reads "Comment are appreciated only if you praise me for being a birthmother and buy one of my slings."

[Andrea]

Well, I was all set to post a handy comparison chart of your trolls & the trolls I've encountered on feminist bbs over the past 10 years, but then I thought--wait a minute! I didn't ask Kateria for permission! Oh Great Leader, I apologize for having an independent thought. I will email it to you instead.

Alas, I alone must bear the burden of being a coward.

All I can say is that trolls are trolls, but it's doubly annoying when they camp out in your living room.

[This Karen, not the Karen above]

I hestitate to even comment on this, because I don't think I have a place. Even as an adoptive mother to be. I don't know what it's like to be a birthmom.

I do know that I respect Kateri's--and other birthmom's--right to feel this pain. And to write about it as much as they want.

If it hurts me, I look away. Just as I'm sure some of my happy shiny posts hurt them.